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architech
10-09-2008, 08:33 PM
You're welcome Mr. Archy, score 1 for the Civils :)

Isn't 80% of the active users here ... civil :confused:
So most of the credit here does go to the civils already... :)


I think I'm the only architect here that's active... :(

I know Mad is MEP but emphasis on the mechanical... and Mad :D

Thanks again.

Cad64
11-09-2008, 12:29 AM
Landscape Architect over here. Don't know for how much longer though? I was very close to quitting today, after my boss decided to unload on me and vent his frustrations, which included a few choice four letter words. So I went back to my desk and composed myself, then I went back into his office and told him that I didn't appreciate what he said and I didn't deserve it. It was very rude and unprofessional and his behavior was just beyond unacceptable. I then went on to inform him that I will not tolerate his yelling and swearing anymore and if he ever speaks to me that way again, I'm gone. Everyone in the office has put up with his abusive personality for a very long time and I'm just done with it. One more time and I'm packing my bags. I deserve, and expect, to be treated better than that. :mad:

Sorry for derailing this thread. :boohoo:

Anybody else here not a civil? :confused:

:thspitcoffee:

architech
11-09-2008, 03:33 AM
......Sorry for derailing this thread. :boohoo:

Anybody else here not a civil? :confused:

:thspitcoffee:

No problem .... the extra topic opens another thread to dicsuss... :)

Anyway...
I recall some where else on this board - about 2 years ago....

Where i said civil / landscape arch .... same thing....
and i got hit with every reason why i was soooooooo wrong..... LOL

So i wont say that again....

And stand corrected.... that there's another catagory of users on this board... :D :thumbs_up

Plotter Guy
11-09-2008, 05:34 PM
.......I will not tolerate his yelling and swearing anymore and if he ever speaks to me that way again, I'm gone. Everyone in the office has put up with his abusive personality for a very long time and I'm just done with it. One more time and I'm packing my bags. I deserve, and expect, to be treated better than that. :mad:

Anybody else here not a civil? :confused:

:thspitcoffee:
You know CAD when I was comming up and learning the trade,I never had the formal "Strip Mall" cad schooling like Devry or ATI, I learned for old guys in the Apprenticeship system. Even when I did go off to College, in theater classes, My instructors would just give me assignments and let me go on. A lot of the Old guys around me were pretty Abusive. It's a way of getting the best out of me. I mean you Just can't hand back a Drawing and say "excuse me can you fix these mistakes in your own good time, as you please?" I guess since I am more in the Machinist, Mechanical, Shop Drawing, Kind of Board turned CAD / CNC Programing Drafting, I sort of expect it. In the Strange Form of drafting/ CNC Programing / illustration I do, I work with lots of Very Dangerous Machinery, where not paying attention can get you killed! But as Time progressed The old guys let up on me some what, but I still take a good Bitching out when I do stupid things . But I do agree with you at your time of life and experience compounded with the fact that you draw Flowers, there is no reason for an abusive boss. I'd be looking for something else! I Definitely find some thing else before packing you stuff! and I hate to call my self a Mechanical guy, because then it sounds like I do HVAC and plumbing systems.

Cad64
11-09-2008, 07:56 PM
I think we had a similar conversation on another forum a while back PG. I too came from a mechanical background working in machine shops for 15 years and I gave out as much as I took in regards to yelling and swearing. My father, who I worked side by side with for 8 years when we had our own shop, was the king of verbal and mental abuse and used to raise hell on a pretty regular basis. But according to our H.R. department, (who were just in here recently), abuse in any form be it sexual, verbal or physical is not acceptable. And just because you're the boss, doesn't mean you're allowed to get away with it. Working in an office is a lot different from working in a shop. It's apples and oranges. There is no comparison.

And just to set the record straight, I'm not some panzy who faints at the sound of a four letter word. My boss is just a self-proclaimed mean S.O.B. and I'm not going to tolerate any more of his nonsense. I've put up with his attitude and his aggressive personality for almost 6 years now, and I've just had enough. Either he's going to straighten himself out or he's going to lose one of his best employees.

Also, getting yelled at for doing something wrong is one thing, but getting yelled at just because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is quite another. He was just pissed off about something else so he decided to unload on me because I happened to come into his office at the wrong time.

architech
11-09-2008, 09:09 PM
.... compounded with the fact that you draw Flowers, there is no reason for an abusive boss. ...

Was that a cut.... :o :p LOL

Cad64
11-09-2008, 09:25 PM
:thspitcoffee:

Yah, yah, I've heard 'em all before. Everybody thinks that Landscape Architects are the bottom of the barrel.
Just for general educational purposes, here's a reply I posted on another forum when some joker decided to question my profession.

You are very misinformed (Insert appropriate name here). I think you should probably do a little research and learn the facts before throwing out a comment like that. Landscape architects have to know the same things that architects do. We are always incorporating structural elements into our designs which require good architectural and structural engineering knowledge. This includes concrete walks, patios, stairs, handicap accessiblity ramps, seat walls, retaining walls, pilasters, overhead trellis's, gazebos, etc., etc., etc.

We also design lakes, ponds, streams & fountains. So we have to know all about what it takes to build a successful water feature. So we need to know all about plumbing. We have to be able to design filtration systems as well as determing what kinds of pumps and water supply lines will be required. We have to take into consideration the possibility of overflow and flooding and what precautions to take in order to avoid that. Etc., etc., etc.

We also have to know and understand civil engineering in order to provide precise and accurate grading plans for our projects. This includes being able to put together a proper drainage system that will not back up and flood the project in a heavy downpour. We also design roads, curbs & gutters and parking lots.

We also need to know how to design an irrigation system that will be water wise and efficient. This is not as simple as it sounds. Some guys dedicate their entire career to just this one specific design element.

I haven't even mentioned the fact that we have to learn all about the millions of different grasses, shrubs and trees that exist in the world. We have to know what plants will work in which areas and come up with aesthetically pleasing landscapes with plants that will not only look good and compliment each other, but also be able to coexist without conflicts. Some plants need a lot of shade, others need a lot of sun. Some need a lot of water, some don't. Some do well at high altitude, some do well in a coastal environment. Some don't tolerate freezing conditions very well. Etc., etc., etc. If our planting scheme fails, we are liable and will have to replace the entire lot at no cost to the client. That means 10's of thousands of dollars coming out of our pockets to fix our mistake.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here. I hope you are a little better informed now and maybe have a better understanding and respect for Landscape Architecture.

And by the way, in order to become a licensed Landscape Architect in the state of California, you are required to have a minimum 4 year college degree in the study of Landscape Architecture before you are even allowed to take the test.

Plotter Guy
11-09-2008, 09:33 PM
Was that a cut.... :o :p LOL

No that was Not a cut, I'm just saying Landscape is like Architectural Drafting, Purely White collar, I mean Architech when was the last time you were on a job site with a Dangerous tool in your hand ? IN Labor Trades that kind of Yelling is accepted as a form of getting you charge's attention for their own Good and Safety! I'm real lucky though I'm kinda in between White Collar and Blue Collar, I am what you might call a Dingy Gray Collar Guy.

Plotter Guy
12-09-2008, 04:19 AM
Ohh and CAD you know the best parts of working in a machine / Fab Shop? I can SMOKE ANYWHERE I PLEASE, and no one can stop me :) Plus I can go in on weekends and run personal jobs like the Billet Motor mounts for my EV Bicycle, at no cost :) and not having to work on the bicycle in my living room is a HUGE PLUS

Alan Cullen
12-09-2008, 10:37 AM
I'm on Cad's side here...I've known him for a few years now. In my capacity as a civil tech, I have always found Cad to be extremely on side...and I work with a lot of architectural landscapers. I have found them to be the best at understanding where we are coming from. I have also found them to be the most willing to compromise with us to find an equitable solution to a problem.

Go for broke Cad......always a job for you in the civil field...your input in the civil field can only enhance us........

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cad64
12-09-2008, 08:02 PM
This thread has taken a left turn and gone a bit off track. Some posts have been removed in an effort to get us moving forward again.

So, once again, anybody else here not a civil?

jimithing
12-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Not a Civil now, but I did do Road Design for the County I live in and also Commercial, Residential, and Golf Courses (talk about your grading fun!!)

architech
13-09-2008, 05:18 AM
No that was Not a cut, I'm just saying Landscape is like Architectural Drafting, Purely White collar, I mean Architech when was the last time you were on a job site with a Dangerous tool in your hand ? ....

Dude... that was cut and now a cut at me.... :)

But i'll take the cut... LOL
you're right.. i havent had a dangerous tool in my hand in a what maybe 4 years...

And even then... it was just a grinder which i used to cut some pipe to put up in my house for a clothes hanger in the laundary room...

But aside from that... does going to construction sites w/out a hard hat count... ???? LOL

Or what about climbing 22foot ladders to get to a roof..... w/out a safety line count???? LOL

so yeah... I not getting my hands totally dirty.... but i they get a little dirty... I'm not in a pearly white tower in a white suit all day....

and my project sites are in NYC... and trust me... New Yorkers aren't rolling out the red carpet for me... nor have that southern hospitality that i hear about so much in the south.... LOL :)


But PG... what exactly do you do.... that you feel you can claim otherwise.... LOL

I would make a cut here.... but fear... i would get cut down from other civils here .. or maybe just pee-off so many with my comments... no one would come back.... LOL


but in any case...
no hard feelings...
but i would like to hear what your claim to fame (dirt) is....
:)

as a civil... :p

Alan Cullen
13-09-2008, 05:47 AM
PG...please...time to just stop the nonsense....so you play with machines...and yes they can be dangerous. How about I slap a stick or two of gelly into your machine. How about I pour two litres of diesel mixed nitroprill on top of that as well. How about I stand over there with a blaster. Now is your machine a dangerous item...or am I a dangerous item?

Every field has its dangers. I just happen to be a surveyor.....and my job involves the use of explosives....I really don't think you can get more dangerous than that.

So let Cad have his say.

Alan Cullen
13-09-2008, 05:49 AM
Cad...you know I'm civil......and damn proud of it

Plotter Guy
13-09-2008, 06:43 AM
Dude... that was cut and now a cut at me.... :)............

But PG... what exactly do you do.... that you feel you can claim otherwise.... LOL
...............
but in any case...
no hard feelings...
but i would like to hear what your claim to fame (dirt) is....
:)Architech I wan't really taking a swipe at you if anything I was reminding you how good you have it ! I do have the deepest Respect for for the architecture Profession, and here is where I get to Hack off all the BS WANA BE Artists. If I understand correctly not only do you have to have a Collage Degree in architecture, but you must appear before a Review board of you pears to get a license. Is that correct? Even if I am wrong at least there is some Slandered that you must archive to call your self an ARCHITECT! Since I Semi Retired and got back in to drafting on my own terms I've been Faced with this whole "I'm a __________" and most of them Stink, for example im my Brother in Laws shop, I must have had to talk to 50 Idiots Calling them selves "Artists" or "Illustrators" before finding a college student that was able to learn! and don't even get me started on the ART-CHITECT guy that tried to get me to do some rendering for him! you see from I can figure as long as you're not doing structural work that requires a P.E., you can be a "Designer" Playing as an architect, if you call your self an ART-chitect. I've had to take over most of the programing @ a Friend of ours Chassis / Fab shop, because he's hired 4 Different "Strip Mall" cad students in the last year, none of the worth Spitting on!

What do I do? well I work between 2 different Fab shops doing Most of their CNC Drafting/ Programing between them 3 Waterjets, 1 Mitsubishi Laser , 4 CO2 Lasers.and one Old Junky Plasma Cutter.Not only do I Draw for them, I often have to run them I also sometimes get called on to run down to the shop to Fab parts so I can draw them for Reproduction. I also do a bit of TiG Welding here and there. But Basically I mostly work from my Home Studio, and spend 2-3 days in the shops a week when I have to. I also do a some of freelance Mechanical illustration here and there, right now I try to be a Jack of all trades in Drafting, and Mechanical Illustration. For example I just finished an installation Manual for a local HVAC manufacturer.

But Seriously if You realy want to Define what I do , I guess you could call me a "RAG and BONE Man" basically doing a little here and there, What ever I can get to make a few bucks, Because I don't have the good health or desire to ever have to go back to work in Large IT environments. And @ 39 I'm Way too old to go back to collage and embark on a new Carrier Path! Like I've said before I thank god My dad made me learn a Trade before I went off to try to be White Collar. But Seriously For 5 months in a Hospital All I had to keep me busy was my laptop with AutoCadd (NO internet) and another Year Home Bound again with Autocadd to keep my Busy, I worked my way in to doing this Strange mix of Drafting / Illustration / Commercial Art. After Knowing Older Draftsmen that helped me learn What I know of the trade, I can't in good Faith Bill my self as a Draftsman. I simply do not have the Credentials, any more than I could Call my self a Machinist, even though my Dad was a Master Tool Maker, and I grew up around his shop, and I can operate almost any piece of Machine tool you put me in front of, I simply do not have the Time invested to obtain the proper Credentials! And the The word Artist is a thing used by talentless hack to elevate them selves to the ranks of a "professional".

So you see Architech I wasn't really taking a swipe at you, at least you have Credentials to back up you trade. I was more trying to remind others that spending all day in an air conditioned office is a lot better and more profitable then Landscaping, or High Steel Work, no matter the Co-Worker Conditions!

and Finely my claim to fame (dirt) is just this because it was 90-95 in the shop Monday, I took a shortcut and Didn't wear my leather coat. I've got a wicked bad sunburn on my gut right now that is making me real irritable. From Welding on a machine base for 6 hours and A piece of Slag burned though my tennis shoes and now I got a Heck of a burn on my left foot!

architech
13-09-2008, 08:03 PM
Well said -guy....

I have no grudges...


Its funny how you ... put things together....
But i get ya'....

;)

as you said ... man up.... right !!!!

I'm on the east coast in work in new york where the coldest mo-foes... work....

so i have thick skin... lol


but still a jersey boy .... at heart... and considered a hick by New Yorkers...
and maybe i am... who knows...

LOL

so no big speeches needed....
LOL

man up cowboy...!
:thspitcoffee:

Plotter Guy
13-09-2008, 08:08 PM
Well you Know, architech After Collage I "THOUGHT" I wanted to go to NYC and do theater, so I got lined up with some people I know and About 3 1/2 weeks of NYC is all I ever wanted :) Costs too much to live there :)